Episode 51: Monetizing Your Personal Brand w/ Metta World Peace & Piif Jones

Steve Weiss, CEO of MuteSix, interviews NBA legend and entrepreneur, Metta World Peace, and Recording Artist, Piif Jones, about how they monetize their personal brands. Listen in on this great conversation for insight into celebrity endorsements, influencer marketing, Facebook ad strategy, and more.

Episode Transcript —Monetizing Your Personal Brand w/ Metta World Peace & Piif Jones

[music]

00:00 Woman Announcer: You're listening to the Spend $10K a Day podcast brought to you by the performance marketing experts at MuteSix. This is your source for cutting edge insight into the world of online advertising from the team with more Facebook case studies than any other agency on the planet. Here are your hosts, Steve Weiss and Stewart Anderson.

00:25 Steve Weiss: Alright, everyone welcome back to the Spend $10K a Day podcast. Today we have two awesome guests who agreed to come on the podcast and they've great stories. And I think we'll be talking about how athletes, and personalities, and people who have followings, influencers, can actually monetize their brand with eCommerce. And today we have both Metta World Peace who you guys know played on the Lakers, and the Knicks, and Pacers, and all the other NBA teams he played for over the years, and Piif Jones who Metta actually manages, who's an up-and-coming musician, who I'm sure everyone's gonna hear about very soon. He's crushing it.

01:06 Metta World Peace: Absolutely.

01:06 SW: Welcome everyone, thanks for coming on the show.

01:08 MP: It's so good to be here. It's so cool to see the possibilities now with the podcast just being in the office and and it's almost fun. Everybody can have a voice and kinda speak on things they like to speak about. These podcasts are just amazing.

01:24 SW: Yeah, man. And just being able to communicate what we learn on a daily basis. We're marketers, so we're consistently trying to figure out how do we get the edge... Just like on basketball, how do we get the edge when it comes to driving new customer acquisition for all of our partners. We're consistently trying to focus on becoming better, each and every day. The topic is kinda interesting right now because as you guys know, the Big Baller brand came into the league this year and...

01:51 Piif Jones: He's killing it.

01:52 SW: Yeah [chuckle] And he didn't wanna sign with the Adidas or any of these companies because he wants to build his own brand internally. And I think it's an interesting topic because I think more and more athletes are starting to think about how do you take control and own your brand...

02:08 MP: Absolutely.

02:08 SW: Without being indebted.

02:09 PJ: I'm surprised it took this long for people to figure it out 'cause every other aspect, everybody's figuring it out, do it yourself and button.

02:18 MP: Absolutely.

02:19 SW: Metta, let's start with you, man. Tell us a little more about how you got into eCommerce. We got introduced by a mutual friend and I was like, "Woah, Metta knows eCommerce so well." And I was so impressed.

02:31 MP: Yeah, it's all about what you wanna do in your life. Everybody has different passions. Mine was basketball. Still is, still love it. But when I semi-retired, 'cause I'm still not officially retired, I was like, "What am I gonna do?" It was kinda shocking, and like, "Oh wow, this is pretty much... " It could be over after my last game. I said, "Okay, I can coach or I could do a couple things," and what I decided to do is go back to school because everything I'm doing is... Marketing's involved. So I applied for UCLA, the digital analytics... The business analytics had a... UC Irvine with Professor McLatchey. The social media UCLA, we did Google ads in Vancouver. I took a... It was a class called Brain Station. And I wanted to do market research now, and I'm like, it's a lot but I did have a background as an architect. I was an architect major in college. Then I went to art, then I went to math. But it just wasn't important because I was just trying to play ball. I was trying to make some money so I'm like, "Architecture or basketball?"

03:39 PJ: No comparison.

03:40 MP: Yeah.

03:41 SW: But you guys would agree that this skill set of understanding digital marketing, understanding analytics, understanding how to build a Shopify store, this translates to the goal of continuously making money.

03:52 MP: It does, yeah.

03:53 PJ: And just to add something, a lot of up-and-coming artists that live in urban areas, we never get exposed to marketing at all, so it's really tough for a lot of up-and-coming artists from these urban areas because we didn't... Nobody gives us this knowledge until you're already there. That's why you see a bunch of stars, they come in with they songs, the hot songs, they get signed and the next thing you know, they're broke.

04:23 MP: It's sad.

04:23 PJ: But we'd never... There's no classes in schools. All the music classes is removed from schools. When I was younger, I had to play the trumpet. I had to do something musically.

04:36 SW: Interesting, so the classes, I guess we ask this reason of why isn't this skill set of being good at digital marketing is, you could argue is about surviving. You're good at marketing yourself. You look at some of the best musicians, 50 Cent, they're great at marketing themselves. But this core skill set isn't being taught to anyone growing up, especially whether you're in an urban neighborhood or whether you're in any neighborhood. I feel like it's continuously this skill set isn't being taught.

05:03 MP: Because you got... People are stimulating the economy, athletes...since we're talking athletes and musicians, so they do kind of stimulate the economy with the things they buy or the businesses that they get in. But I think having this skill set when you get into the music business or getting into your own sneaker business, do you know how to market your business? That's what got me so interested about it, and I said, "Okay, I could either continue rapping and coaching. I love being a brand or I could just go to school and just do it from a business side." And people say, "eCommerce, what is that?" You gotta get involved in eCommerce.

05:43 PJ: They need have to have that in like middle school.

[chuckle]

05:46 SW: They will.

05:46 PJ: Yeah, seriously.

05:48 SW: I think part of the mission that I have is not only a person who runs a business that's based on Facebook ads, but I wanna go into areas where digital marketing isn't prevalent. I wanna go into places, New Jersey, New York, where I grew up where I feel that there's a mission that I can have a positive difference, and that's actually really one of the reasons why I started this podcast, was because I'm hoping to eventually reach those people because I know what it's like, just on a personal level, to feel like there is no options, to feel like, "I'm gonna be this because this is who I am and this is where I grew up and stuff," and so this is what excites me about the space of digital marketing. I got into it at a very young age, at 16 years old, and it just exploded in my mind.

06:30 MP: That's amazing.

06:32 SW: Yeah, so let's go into it. You guys both represent two different areas: The athlete and the musician, you guys are building so much value in society. People are watching you on TV, people are listening to your music. But you guys have, I feel like deep down, you have such little control over your brand and over what actually drives the dollars in your brand.

06:54 MP: It's true.

06:56 SW: And I really wanna understand, if you're giving an advice to both an athlete and a musician, 'cause both of you guys are really smart and cutting edge, what advice are you giving them as they start coming up to really understand how to monetize their brand?

07:10 PJ: Well, from a musician standpoint, I would say, read. Just research everything, research everything as far as... That you don't know. Because in music, you can't really... You can be taught instruments but you can't really be taught how to make music. It's kinda natural, so all the other aspects is what you got to focus in on, 'cause once I went to college for the music and I started reading books and started reading up about marketing and all of that, that's when I really started opening my mind that I can do that 'cause I didn't even know it could be done. Just read and just researching everything about what you're about to do.

07:48 SW: Yeah. I'll take that a step further so being good at your craft is one thing. You guys are obviously amazing at what you do but really understanding the business side of how you're going to sustain wealth, I think the act of sustaining wealth of saying, "I'm not just focusing on music as my main source. I'm not focusing on basketball." And I think that's a mindset. I think that's a... You guys will agree that it's a mindset.

08:11 MP: Yeah it's true. It is a mindset. I was speaking to somebody earlier he's talking about... Oh he was talking about Kobe and the books and he just focus on that, and it is the mindset you got to kind of transfer your mind a little bit from what you're doing. But just taking your time, partnering with the right people. Meeting the right people. Using the right companies and learning also, so you can make sure you're working with the right people. Because a lot of times... I remember I used to have a music budget, $7500 maybe a month and the music guy's only doing... Maybe bring me to radio stations for interviews when he's saying he can do everything. So instead of spending money on a music guy, a social media guy, a PR person, and just using them for what they do well, people waste money on those budgets and now your overhead is heavy, and you see a lot of...

09:01 PJ: Definitely be careful.

09:03 MP: And that translates to clothing, merch, everything.

09:05 PJ: I done spend some money... Now with the marketing, they got a lot of ads. A lot of people that inbox you and just ask you if you wanna get your song these many plays, or get your music here, get your music here, $50 here, $50 there. And it's like it's so many of those now that it's watering down the actual... Nobody knows who to really go to. If you don't have the connection in the industry, you can get lost in the marketing world. You can really get lost in the marketing world, chasing these side hustle advertisement companies that make up their own websites and put your music on their 10 websites that they made up. It don't even be sensible websites. It's really... Yeah, so you've really got to pay attention.

09:58 MP: Yeah.

10:00 SW: It all goes back to the key point I keep sticking in my mind is, if you're an athlete or celebrity, you're an aspiring athlete or celebrity, as part of monetizing your brand, this conversation's about monetizing your brand, getting the most out of it. You have to meet the right people. What do you do to meet the right people? And I think... I wanna keep this conversation focused but at the same time, I think a lot of monetizing your brand whether it's Shopify or eCommerce is meeting the right people. If you guys can just share some of your... A lot of people listening to this podcast might be athletes, might not, but how do you meet the right people in business? That's a key point.

10:37 MP: For me it was hard 'cause, one, when I would get a card I never knew how important the card was...

10:43 SW: Like a credit card?

10:44 MP: A business card.

10:45 SW: Business card.

10:45 MP: From somebody I met. So I threw away a lot of my business cards over the years and then later in my career, I started to keep all the business cards of people I meet. And then sometimes, some of the things you wanna get involved in, it's saturated. The market is saturated and I want to get in the shoe business or the merch business. But it's still... You can have a niche. How do you meet that person that can introduce me to Nordstrom's and even before I go to Nordstrom's, am I even ready? Sometimes you meet people and you're not ready to take it to that next level, so I just try to take a step back instead of always trying to do every single business, just meet a lot of people and then once I have a good team, now I can just call those people that I've met and kind of set up my strategy a little bit, and that's been working for me a little bit.

11:33 SW: If you're an NBA basketball player, you're getting people hit you up on Instagram, you're getting all these people messaging you. I can only imagine, man. You're the most down to earth dude I've ever met. You're both my friend and someone I have respect for.

11:45 PJ: Absolutely cool, man.

11:47 MP: You're great, too. You just help out so much and there's not a lot of people like that. I'm kind of like you. I like to help people, but there's not a lot of people like that.

11:58 SW: Let's talk about this for a second. Two different people that I wanna target in this question. Number one, you're the athlete. You're playing basketball, you're playing football. Where do you go to find people in your network that you trust to do eCommerce? Where do you go? Where did you go initially?

12:17 MP: Well I just went back to school.

12:20 SW: Okay.

12:20 MP: Cause I was like, "I know what I want and I know what I'm doing right now is not working." And then I'm like, "What is the most important thing? Is it a COO for your company or is it an assistant?" And I'm like, "I need marketing and what does that mean?" I'm like, "Okay, I wanna sell shoes and I wanna do basketball camps. Okay. How the hell am I gonna get this? Or how am I gonna get it? How am I gonna get a lot of people to come to my basketball camps?" Cause I have a lot of fans, but I'm not holding them, I don't know where they're at. I keep losing them. Now I'm like, "Okay, the way Nike's doing it, they're promoting, so LeBron and Kobe." Those type of guys have a huge marketing team behind them from Star Farm, Nike, Gatorade. Right? Which you have people and offices like this doing marketing, so I'm like, "I have to start marketing myself. That's the only way it's gonna work." And I said only I can do it is go to school.

13:16 SW: It's interesting cause not a lot of people will go... I mean, conscientiously it's not like most people go back...

13:23 PJ: Slim to none.

13:25 MP: It's true. It's true.

13:26 SW: It's very...

13:26 MP: Everytime I tell somebody, they'll be like "You went back to school?" And I'm like, "Yeah. I went back to school.

13:30 SW: And this is a question for you Piif, or either of you question. You're a brand, you're an eCommerce brand, you're growing really fast. You're obviously using Facebook as main source of driving revenue but you wanna reach out to an athlete, you wanna reach out to a musician, and you wanna partner with them. If you don't have an athlete or a musician in your network of your group of friends, where most people don't, well you go middle America. Somebody's trying to make it who don't have access to some of these influencers.

13:57 MP: Yeah. Absolutely. I know. It's true.

14:02 SW: How do go about reaching out to people? Giving them advice?

14:06 PJ: Well, usually, when I try I really get... I don't really find a lot other people that I really wanna just reach out to because most of the times when you reach out to people, it gives them that sense of you needing them. Instead of us working together, so usually I would just put myself out there and I just wait for them to contact me. I put it in the atmosphere. I don't know how y'all feel about that, but when I want I put it out there in the atmosphere.

14:38 SW: So maybe tagging someone on a twitter comment?

14:40 PJ: It is like, I just. No, check it but then you gotta put yourself out there to be seen.

14:47 SW: Totally.

14:47 PJ: I use that method instead of just hitting people up like, "Yo, listen I wanna do a song with you and" Because the people that I do hit them up when I do a song already, I don't even need to do that, cause come to find out, they know me. And they be like, "I know you, I like your music. And all that". It goes for the people just like verified, got 500 000 followers. There's like no way to get to them, you gotta put yourself out there. You gotta be...

15:13 SW: Right. Right. Right.

15:14 PJ: Like if they're going to the club that night, you gotta be in the club that night. [laughter] You understand? That's how I got connections with a lot of people, just being where they're at.

15:24 SW: Nine-tenths of the game is showing up.

15:25 MP: Yeah, yeah, showing up.

15:26 PJ: Sometimes it's more than... 'Cause you gotta think, there's a million people tryin' to inbox them.

15:30 SW: Right. Right. Right.

15:31 PJ: And trying to connect with them the same way, so you gotta be different.

15:35 SW: It's interesting, so what you're saying is, maybe not even try to reach out to people but...

15:40 PJ: Nah, just put yourself out there.

15:41 SW: Try and go to places where they are.

15:44 PJ: 'Cause all the celebrities and all public figures, they all do... They all have to appear somewhere. [laughter] Like they all have to appear.

15:54 MP: I like meeting people and just knowing about them. You don't wanna just work with people right off the bat from day one. But I like going out, whether it's somebody that's a higher position to me or somebody in a lower position than me, somebody has helped me so why not... If somebody was to come up to me and talk to me, I would listen. Obviously, you can't do a lot of that.

16:18 SW: Or maybe a good way would be to maybe reach out to one of their friends or someone they're connected with.

16:22 MP: That's good, too.

16:22 SW: Someone that they trust.

16:23 MP: Yeah, yeah.

16:24 PJ: Yeah, I've gotten a lot of... The music is really the main source of people contacting me and me contacting people, so it's like, the more I do the music, the more it just naturally happens.

16:44 SW: When you do more, when you produce more often, you put yourself out there.

16:47 PJ: Right, yeah. 'Cause that's all I'll testify, is just putting yourself out there 'cause it's all about... 'Cause as an artist that's like the toughest thing for a lot of people, a lot of artists, is putting their self out there.

16:58 MP: And it's funny, as an artist, I feel like I'm a basketball artist and I always wanted do a lot of basketball camps but I never did. And would watch some of my peers, I'm like, "They're doing so many basketball camps all over the world." I'm like, "Why am I not doing more basketball camps?" One was because I was rapping. I was doing that more than focusing 100% on basketball, but that's all branding. Like my brand is basketball, so why not just use basketball? Now, I'm trying to set it up now, just market it in a way where I can do consistent basketball camps.

17:29 SW: That's awesome. So Metta, tell us... Metta, you're very involved in eCommerce right now. You have a couple of brands. Tell us a little about your brands and the kind of stuff you're passionate about.

17:41 MP: When I was 19 I got involved in the music business. But I didn't know the business, so I got out of the music business. And then, I figured to not force it. Wanting to be this rapper, I said, "Just let things happen naturally." And then I just somehow got into wanting to do films and then I said, "Okay." I was putting out some shirts and selling sneakers and I'm like, "Here I'm, kinda getting a little rhythm here," and then I just decided to just get into marketing, so I set up Artest Management Group and I always had clients. Even when I had artists, it was my artists or I was managing artists, it was my artists. We had the client division and wanted to do sports, so we got a couple athletes that we worked with. That was...

18:30 SW: Piif is your client. Just...

18:31 MP: Piif is a client.

[chuckle]

18:32 SW: We mentioned that already. Piif is under Artest Management.

18:35 MP: Yes. Yeah. I like him because he's a hard worker. He's trying to expand his brand. I can't work with just an artist, cause if you're just doing music, I don't know the music business, so there's nothing I can do for you. But if you're a brand, I can work with you.

18:49 SW: Cool.

18:50 MP: Yeah, so that's what we're doing.

18:52 PJ: Loopy Life is the name of my brand.

[chuckle]

18:55 SW: Loopy Life. I like that. Loopy Life is gonna be selling eCommerce products?

19:00 PJ: We got to!

[chuckle]

19:03 SW: Cool, so tell us... You have how many eCommerce stores do you have?

19:05 MP: I got thepandasfriend.com.

19:08 SW: Thepandasfriend.com, okay.

19:10 MP: Thepandasfriend.com.

19:11 SW: What is that? Tell us what that is.

19:13 MP: The Panda's Friend, I started it 2014. I was going to China, and my daughter loves pandas, so she will always cry when she sees pandas, so I'm like, "I'm doing clothing. I gotta do something that means more that I can get behind." And I didn't wanna do Metta World Peace clothing. I didn't wanna do Ron Artest clothing. Though I'm doing it now for my little sons 'cause they're playing basketball.

19:33 SW: Well that's cool.

19:34 MP: But I said, "The panda's friend." [laughter] And then I started to say it. I put it out there and then people were saying, "Oh Metta World Peace changed his name again to the Panda's Friend." It wasn't just one day. It was two days, or three days or seven days, and CNN picked it up and Huffington Post, so I said, "Alright, I can probably make this a brand and just do this."

19:56 SW: For those that know let me just take a step back. Metta, you changed your name from Ron Artest to Metta World Peace.

20:01 MP: Absolutely.

20:02 SW: You weren't born Metta World Peace?

20:04 MP: Yeah, yeah.

20:04 PJ: It was very funny, too.

20:05 SW: Tell us the story.

20:06 PJ: I was like, "Yo, he really did that!"

[laughter]

20:09 SW: Tell us the story of how you changed your name, 'cause I think that's interesting.

20:14 MP: Yeah, I was at a point in my life where I was just wanted to be different. I had a rough NBA career in terms of just playing basketball. It wasn't a stable career, so I just wanted to be different and not be that. I didn't wanna be the NBA player that just had an unstable career. I think I'm something else. I'm more than that. And so I said, "I'm just getting back to who I am," and everything I can do to change my life, spiritually, emotionally, I did. Changing my name was one of them. Being around my kids is something else. Just having fun and just being yourself, and I did do some meditation and stuff. It was dope at the time. It still is.

21:02 SW: I think it's very... Reinventing yourself as an entrepreneur is what we're gonna say, like Metta World Peace is the remix.

[chuckle]

21:09 PJ: The business man.

21:10 SW: For the better.

21:11 MP: Yeah, it is.

21:11 PJ: You'll get on the cover of GQ.

[laughter]

21:14 MP: It's fun.

21:14 PJ: Gonna be on the cover of GQ.

21:16 SW: Yeah.

[laughter]

21:17 MP: It was weird when I did it. I was like, "I just wanna do it. I just wanna do it," and I did it and my kids, they were thinking about it also like, "Should we change our name?" But then it was like, "No, I'm not changing my name. [chuckle] It was pretty funny.

21:29 SW: You got Panda's Friend which is a Shopify site that you launched. Tell me about some of the other sites you're launching or some of the other industries that you're interested in.

21:40 MP: Well we got Butter Cloth, which is...

21:41 SW: Yeah, Butter Cloth.

21:41 MP: I can't wait because I have merch. But Butter Cloth is just a base. When I put the shirt on, it was just insanely comfortable, and I remember just saying, "I want more of them shirts." I was wearing it to bed just to kinda see. It's just so comfortable. I wake up, no wrinkles and it's perfect for business. I'm really excited about the founders of the company. They're gonna do a good job. Also, Lyrica Anderson.

22:13 SW: Lyrica Anderson. Okay, what is that?

22:15 PJ: Amazing!

22:15 MP: Lyrica Anderson is an artist.

22:16 SW: Oh, okay.

22:18 MP: It's smart for me to get involved with her, because she's has about 600,000 followers on Instagram, and she's...

22:25 PJ: See, I made the connection through Ron. [laughter]

22:28 SW: It was the intro.

22:29 MP: It was great and I'm gonna do her brand. I told her, "As an artist, when you go on tour, you gotta sell merch." And I said, "I'm interested in that side of it." I'm just helping you with that, and so that's all I'm doing.

22:41 SW: That's awesome.

22:43 MP: And I'm looking forward to her brand, and there's a couple more things... I like basketball. I wanna sell basketballs, cause I'm a basketball player. I'm just like, "Why not just sell basketballs?"

[laughter]

22:55 SW: Well, if you get the basketballs made, people will say, "It's possible, then obviously the sport is gonna continuously grow."

23:00 MP: Absolutely. It's gonna grow and you can help people, cause with a basketball, you can also throw tournaments and stuff. Things I like, things I love.

23:06 SW: I guess the bigger is this, that a lot of athletes who are... And entertainment people in general, musicians, they're not monetizing in their brand by not selling merch.

23:18 MP: Right. Right.

23:19 SW: Leveraging your brand to actually get people into your life, of your experienced through merchandise is the way you're gonna sustain yourself past whatever you're gonna do. And then secondly, using ads to promote your brand will actually allow you to promote yourself along with it. I never really...

23:37 PJ: Right. I've got a question for you about that.

23:38 SW: Yeah.

23:39 PJ: How effective is paying for Facebook to promote one of your posts? Say if you put out your new video and you pay this, what say you do 30 days for like... And you wanna spend $50, how effective is it really?

24:00 SW: This podcast is specifically about that, about tracking the success of the best marketers on eCommerce, whether it's Facebook or it's Google, we all wanna spend 10K a day at profitability. We wanna spend 10 grand a day and make 40 and make 50, and provide an ROI, so it all depends on what your objective is. If your objective is to drive sales, you could drive a sale of a shirt or a piece of apparel along with your brand, and in essence, you're paying for that ad with the shirt sales, but the secondary effect is you're actually getting more people to interact with your brand and learn about your story. I think that's the reason why branding and direct response is intermingling now. Now not only are athletes... There's an opportunity for athletes, entertainers to really monetize their brand through selling merch, but they can expand their brand through paid advertising. They could actually run ads from their fan page and also generate sales, but those sales now are also paying for increased brand exposure, which I would say really interesting to everyone. Am I right?

25:09 MP: Yes, I think so. I think of the integrated marketing.

25:13 PJ: I see everybody, like when I scroll down Instagram, everybody has a sponsored post now. Everybody is advertisement crazy... It's like advertisement mania.

25:25 SW: People are being really... The smartest marketers I think are the people who are in the limelight.

25:33 PJ: Is it better to do it a shorter period of time with more money involved or sustaining it for a longer period of time and have it like...

25:44 SW: Well, let's go back and I'm sure these questions are asked a lot to me, as well as a lot of other people...

25:49 PJ: Yeah, yeah.

25:50 SW: But I think like it all is based on your conversion objective. Facebook is a platform where they optimize your ads to get the exact objective that you want, whether it's sales, likes, comments, shares, followers. You tell Facebook, what do you want? And as an artist, your goal might be exposure, you wanna reach... Let's say you're going to Los Angeles and you have a concert out here. You wanna get exposure to the LA market, so that when the promoters start promoting your concert, they're gonna have an easier time selling tickets because you're running specific ads about your music to people already in the Los Angeles area, so it's literally... And in that case your marketing toward a CPM or gross, "I wanna reach as many people in this specific audience as humanly possible." But really understanding what that goal is, I feel like, is the most important thing. And also timing. Timing is very important. If you're an athlete and you're an NBA player, then you know that you're gonna be selling a lot more merchandise during the season, whatever season you're at. You know that like during basketball season, you know this is your time not only to make money on the court, but you wanna make money off the court.

26:57 SW: You know that your Facebook ads or your Google ads are gonna get so much more traffic and likewise, you being an artist, you know that when you're promoting in a concert, let's say you're performing in New York, you know that during that time that you're preparing for that concert, you're gonna be selling merch up to that concert, during that concert, and after that concert to that audience.

27:16 MP: Yeah, and I just feel like it just makes so much sense. Even if you do a commercial or a video ad, which you have music playing on your merch, it helps you sell something, it helps people listen to your music, and I'm just, it's so interesting because if you're like a big company, you can do all these things if you have such a big budget, but if you're on your own, you've gotta kind of figure it out on your own 'cause you can't pay salaries and stuff to market yourself.

27:42 SW: This goes back to like the question of learning and I think we brought that up earlier. It's like, "How does someone who doesn't work at a big advertising agency or here have the resources?" Maybe they don't have even a friend or social circle of people who do this on a daily basis. How do they learn from the best people? How do they gain access? And I think it's all about putting out... You put it best, reaching out there, saying that, "I am looking for help here."

28:08 MP: Right, yes.

28:09 SW: I think, putting it out to the universe.

28:11 MP: That's true. So true.

28:11 PJ: I put up this one post on my Instagram and I was just like, I would just let everybody know what I've been going through 'cause I was just tellin everybody like, "Yeah, I quit my job a year and a half ago and this whole time I've just been doing everything off of my friends, and the little money I make off of a couple shows here and there." And I was just really explaining and I was just like, "I need help." [chuckle] And it was people who were just commenting and inbox... I got like 100 comments and like a bunch of inboxes and everybody's like, "Oh any way I can help? Any way I can help?" They like to help. And it was like, if I never did that, nobody would say anything. People would just think that I'm good 'cause on the outside looking in, on Instagram I look like I'm making a whole bunch of money and I'm around a whole bunch of celebrities, but you gotta like turn that into reality.

29:01 SW: Yeah, totally and I think it all goes back to like you wanna be great at something, it's going out to the universe trying to be great. If you know deep down that to be the best digital marketer, you have to find the other great digital marketers and learn from them and really figure out, "How do I make Facebook a profitable engine for me? How do I run Facebook ads at scale? How do I... " A great example, Panda's Friend. You know that you don't wanna have a big conglomerate company run your facebook ads. You know that you have to do it in-house. You have to learn it to be able to delegate it and build a team around it. I think the key is to really become the best in it and understand yourself and I think these lessons could be applied in many different athletes and celebrities that listen. You can't just expect someone, a connection, or a friend of yours to come in and just be an expert at it.

30:00 MP: That's true and what's interesting is... And even if you don't want to do it, you can always hire the right people or work with the right people...

30:05 SW: But you have to understand what you're doing.

30:07 MP: Right. You got to understand what you're doing.

[overlapping conversation]

30:09 PJ: Or you're just spending a bunch of money.

30:11 SW: Or you're just gonna hire people who just want jobs.

30:12 MP: It's so true.

30:15 SW: Well, that's so interesting, guys. I know you gotta run. And I'm just really very appreciative of you guys taking the time out of your busy day to come on our podcast, the Spend 10K a Day Podcast.

30:26 MP: Yeah. Had a great time speaking to you about eCommerce.

30:31 PJ: And all the advertisement world that I now know about.

30:35 MP: Absolutely. We'll love to come back to the show. And I ought to bring some of my athlete friends to the show just 'cause I just think it's so interesting, you could teach people something different... This education right here is priceless. Some people pay for this. And if you can give it back to somebody that can't afford it, it's just great. I would love to come back.

30:54 SW: Thank you, guys. Just to reiterate, the follow up thoughts on the topic of monetize your brand, number one, always be very thoughtful about meeting the right people that could help scale your growth. And what that means is really be bullish about going out there and finding the solution, and finding the people that can get you the knowledge that you need to grow your brand. And number two, specifically on the paid ads side is really leverage your brand to sell product through your Facebook fan page, through your Instagram, through paid ads. You could continuously actually both build your brand to sell merch at the same time. The selling merch part of your paid advertising strategy could be resulting that your brand is actually growing, because you have a lot more eyeballs coming to your fan page or coming to your websites. One of the greatest parts or aspects of monetizing your brand is that you could use your brand's story to, not only sell product, but when you run paid ads, you're also gonna see a lift across all sectors of people, knowing who you are as a a person. Thank you so much and once again, another great episode of Spend 10K a Day Podcast.

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