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Episode 44: Facebook Groups with BAMF Media CEO Josh Fechter

Learn how to engage your audience, customers and fans with Facebook and LinkedIn groups.

Episode Transcript — Facebook Groups with BAMF Media CEO Josh Fechter

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00:02 Announcer: You're listening to the "Spend $10K a Day" podcast, brought to you by the performance marketing experts at MuteSix. This is your source for cutting-edge insight into the world of online advertising from the team with more Facebook case studies in 2016 than any other agency on the planet. Here are your hosts, Steve Weiss and Stewart Anderson.

00:01 Steve: Hey guys, welcome back to Spend $10K a Day podcast. Today we have an awesome guest, Josh Fechter from Badass Marketers & Founders. He runs one of the most popular marketing groups on Facebook for e-commerce companies, for anyone who wants to become an awesome growth hacker and growth marketer. Hey man, thanks for coming on our podcast. Tell us a little about yourself, bro. 

00:24 Josh Fechter: Yeah, thank you for having me. So a little background is, I've been working in growth for the last five years and everything from heading growth out of a Facebook marketing software company where I started off on contract and then just did really great work and worked ton of overtime to help them become successful. And they're actually the first company I live streamed on Facebook. Then went to SF for some bigger opportunities in tech and became head of growth for a company called UpOut. UpOut was an event subscription company and managed growth for them in five cities and expansion in two. Used that experience to jump in the VC world, as a head of growth for a VC firm. And I actually thought that was gonna be really awesome. I was like, "Oh, I'll have a real firm." It ended up being a way different [chuckle] experience than I had ever planned to say the least.

01:14 Steve: They speak a different language than us, don't they? Than us marketers. Man, they think differently, they speak... I mean it's cool, but they have their own way of thinking about life. [laughter]

01:24 JF: 100%. Their way of thinking is... Well, they're not thinking about bootstrapping start-ups, that's not their mentality. Because they have money, they're always thinking of how can I reach this milestone faster, rather than how can we bootstrap and really get to profitability. And that was a very different mindset dealing with. Then I left there to become the growth evangelist for Auto Pilot, which is one of the top ten fast growing SaaS companies. And that was a really cool experience. And then, all the while this community online that was building and eventually it made sense to just manage it full-time and pursue it.

02:03 Steve: Awesome, man. So you got experience in B2B, you got experience in B2C, you've seen growth from the eyes of a marketer, from a VC for a B2B company, so you've been just looking at it from every angle, so you got a lot of diverse experience. Tell us a little more about BAMF. Why you had this decision to start a Facebook group? I think one of the biggest things when you're a marketer is sharing your intel with the community. And I love it how you're so open, you're so honest, you have great energy, man, and that's why I was so excited to have you on our podcast.

02:34 JF: Yep, thank you, man. So honestly it came from this point where I had gone to SF to meet the best marketers, the best founders, get the best advice, and I felt like I was left with nothing. I went to events and I was listening to the head of growth for Uber or whatever company it is, and it was basically a pitch to get people to work for their company. They're talking very high level growth framework stuff, stuff that I wasn't even interested in. And I was like, "How do I get my first 100 customers. How do I get my first 1,000 customers?" And I was like, "Man, there's a lot of founders that are getting sucked into these events and getting screwed."

03:10 JF: Any content online... You go to growthhackers.com and it's like, "Here's how Uber grew." And it's just a short 1,000-word blog post that's like, wow, so no tangible... 

03:21 Steve: There's no tactical. There's no takeaways. There's no, "I need to do this, this, this, and this to help my company grow." You hit the nail on the head, man. That's something that I'm always super passionate about, it's like, what does this mean? It's all trajectory. It's all kinda like very high level. Yeah, you need to run Facebook ads, well that makes sense. That makes a lot of rational sense. Yeah, you need to talk to your audience. Well, what does that mean? So, I love it how granular you get. You release a lot of checklists. I was reading one of your checklists for LinkedIn, and I think that you are very granular in the way you think about growth and that's kinda how I wanna think about growth. How I wanna build an organization to think about growth. So tell us about the Facebook groups. Facebook is making a big push toward groups. You'd agree. I saw that you had a picture of Mark Zuckerberg, which is amazing. You got to meet Zuck. And Facebook's making a big push to groups, and I wanna really correlate that to e-commerce strategy and really talk about how important it is to have a group and have a dialogue between yourself and your customers. The group is the new fan page, in my opinion. 

04:27 JF: Yeah, groups are super valuable. I think they're one of the most underused assets. And part of it is because people are either one, they don't think they have the bandwidth to manage a group. They can't see the benefits, because there's no direct add to ROI. They can't see that. Sometimes you're putting up a post to make sales, right? So if they're like, "Well how many sales am I going to make?" And honestly, I was actually scared for a long time that I wasn't gonna make that much money. Even when I had, I think, 4,000 people in it, and it was pretty active at the time. And it wasn't until my first... It was a day, right before I joined Auto Pilot. I was like, "I wanna impress these people," and I put up a post and I said, "If you want access to my entire drive at growth hacks, start their free trial and then I'll send it you. As long as you send me a screenshot that you actually used the product." And that drove over $200,000 in sales from that. From a Facebook group that had, again, a little over 4,000 members.

05:22 Steve: Whoa.

05:23 JF: And at that time I had not made any sales from the community. So then, all of a sudden I was like, "Whoa, that just happened." I made $200,000 in sales for them and a span that happened, and I'd say a little over a week. 

05:36 Steve: What's really cool is, I have a lot of partners we work with that are like, "Steve, should I invest money in page likes and audience development campaigns on my fan page?" And I look at people like they're crazy when they say that. You're gonna invest money for a dying breed, for page likes, when Facebook is never gonna show your organic content to any of the people that you're driving likes. But groups are little different if you're able to join a group and you're able to promote a group around your product or something around your product from a brand perspective, there's a lot of value, I believe, in actually running paid ads to get people to sign up to groups. Am I right?

06:13 JF: Yes, you can do that. I didn't run that many paid ads, so I did it for a little bit, maybe drew around 15 members. I relied primarily on, well to be honest, I cold emailed 50,000 people, with great copy. So before I had a growth over at Facebook Marketing Software Company, I spent a year as a copywriter. And it was like... I was down and out, I had two failed start-ups that I founded. It wasn't a good time in my life, and I was just working as a copywriter, and it ended up being one of my best skills ever. [chuckle] Little did I know.

06:47 Steve: We've all been there, man. I moved out to LA originally to be a stand-up comedian. I thought that was my calling and the first ad I ever ran was to drive people to my comedy show, so... [chuckle] Where you start in the marketing world is not necessarily where you end. [laughter] But I'm fascinated with where the groups on Facebook are going. I also wanna talk to you about LinkedIn, but I wanna start off on the groups. If you're talking to an e-commerce brand or anyone who's selling products online and you explain to them, how important it is to have a group, besides just your fan page, how would you communicate to them and say the importance of having all your people in one specific place, whether you email list, cold emailing to get people to join a group, or just having them in one centralized place where you can actually reach them with posts. How would you explain it, how important that is? 

07:40 JF: Yes. So I would say one of the big benefits is that it creates a brand. And brands are not, for the most part, not tangible so it's hard for people to see an ROI. But I explain a brand that it's two people, either your customers or prospects talking about you, without you in the room, and it's like, what are they saying about you? And it's also you helping them facilitate that conversation, even though you're not even there, right? So people talking about the group when I'm not even there and saying, "This is an awesome group. This is where you should be," and them explaining that to other marketers. I think one of the cool things about my group that makes it a little bit different, is we are pretty strict about who we let in, so we only let in founders or marketing directors, growth hackers. We don't let in any wantrepreneurs. We try to stay as [chuckle] far away from them as possible, because we know groups get filled with them pretty quickly. And this helps us understand what they want. So by us understanding like, "Hey, these guys actually have a budget," we can talk about marketing automation software without people rolling their eyes. And I think that really helps as well. Part of it is also getting people to comment and invest in it. So, one of the things that I noticed early on is that if people aren't actively investing in a group with commenting, then they don't even feel like...

08:56 Steve: You gotta to engage with your community. I think that's the number one thing when you run social ads or you run anything on social is... 100% agree is engaging within your community. Have you noticed that the group gets such a higher edge rank or a higher amount of percentage in someone's newsfeed than just a fan page when it comes to Facebook's algorithm? 

09:18 JF: Oh, yeah. Complete difference, unless you're paying for ads, it's not gonna happen on your fan page. For a group, especially one of the tricks that we use which works really well, so I would say around 2000 to 3000 of my Facebook friends are actually in the group as well. So, this actually increases the likelihood that they'll see the content I post in the group. Now, we also have some of the admins or some of the moderators also add a lot of people in the group, so whenever they post, people are more likely to see their content as well. So, this helps us reach a larger audience without having to do much work. And it sounds really simple and it is... 

09:56 Steve: It's having your friends in the group, and that you gotta reach more people, automatically. [chuckle] 

10:02 JF: Most admins actually don't do this. I'm in this Facebook group with, I think there is close to 4000 admins and Facebook actually runs it, and they do a lot of commenting in there and polls. And it turns out that most admins actually, it doesn't even occur to them to add their members as friends. [laughter] 

10:22 Steve: Wow, that's so funny. You know what I was thinking about, this is a very open discussion and what I'm trying to understand, now you can run ads from your group, so you can run ads from Facebook groups, correct?

10:35 JF: I don't think so yet. I think that still needs to be released. The problem with that, is that there's not that many active groups, so if you think about Facebook as a whole... Most people think that there are thousands of thousands of active Facebook groups, that are really active and... But there's probably around, like sizable ones, over 2000 people, maybe like 500.

11:01 Steve: Cool.

11:01 JF: It's that low. 

11:04 Steve: I was under the impression that that was already released, I shouldn't have said anything, but they are eventually going to release a Facebook groups plug-in to run ads from. And what I'm thinking about the future of Facebook groups is that that's gonna be one of the primary ways you're gonna be running ads from, because you gonna get such great organic reach from your group. So, your brand and you have the option of, "Do I share my best content with A, my group or B, my fan page, you're gonna wanna share your best content with your group." Am I right?

11:35 JF: 100% and part of that is your group and the people in it, tend to be friends with each other. So, if someone likes it, other people will get notified of their friends and if they're in the group, then you have all of these people just getting notified. It's like this network effect.

11:50 Steve: It's crazy, isn't it? It's a great way of driving organic traffic and none of the brands we work with... I don't know of any large digital only or media only brands that really are leveraging groups. And I guess my excitement is to really come up with this idea, this methodology of really leveraging groups to actually drive organic growth. Whether it's sales, whether it's engagement, I think that's kind of the next frontier where Facebook actually wants people to go. I think the fan page methodology is more or less around building a likes algorithm. "You like this, we're gonna serve you this." Now, the groups is eventually gonna be a place where people engage and actually spend the most of their time. Would you agree with that?

12:28 JF: Yes. So people are spending more time in groups and Facebook's releasing a tonne of features. I mean they did even change their mission recently to basically say, "Hey, we're bringing people closer together and that means we're gonna focus on groups." And when Facebook changes their mission that's a [chuckle] really big deal, 'cause they haven't done that in such a long time.

12:46 Steve: Dude, that's why I'm excited about just being able to learn from someone like you who's built a huge group. Obviously, I haven't played with the groups algorithm, and I think talking to you and having you share with our audience just some of your intel is amazing, because the future of paid marketing on Facebook is gonna have a lot to do with groups. And I think it's gonna be... The future of sharing content organically is gonna be done through groups. I think if we can spread that message to other brands, that you need to start building groups around specific areas of your business, you're gonna see the biggest ROI when you share content, that that is gonna be the biggest difference maker.

13:25 JF: I 100% agree. One of the things I find so fascinating is that people still don't know how to market to groups. I would gladly let other people market to my groups, if they just decided to provide value. For example, if they said, "Hey, if you go and comment on my product launch, I'll release this Chrome extension to you and I'll send it to you via private DM." I would totally let someone do that in my group, but no one actually goes and outsources a Chrome extension that's really helpful for about 600 bucks. Or whatever, it could be just a guide that they created, that's super cool. And rather, they just go into the group and they say, "Hey, here's my product launch. Go, like it." And I say if you do exchange of value, and you can do that across maybe 10 groups in your niche, and drive thousands and thousands of people to a product launch if you want to, that's just one example. So basically a group should be looked at as an exchange of value whenever you're marketing in that you're like, "What can I provide to... ", and then in order for these people to take a certain action, whether that be liking my posts, commenting or just sharing something.

14:29 Steve: So, if I'm an e-commerce brand, and I'm growing. Key actionable insights. Number one, create a group [chuckle] Probably have a fan page, very simple, create a group. Read the comments of your facebook ads, find a cause, find something that speaks to the brand, find something that you want the brand to be associated with. Number one, create a group. Content is key. Number two, invite your friends, all your friends on Facebook, add admins who have friends. Very important, that's how your group is gonna go viral. And number three, reach out to other groups. Ask for shout outs from other groups as a way, similar to how influencer marketing works. Come up with a value prop of why your group is very... Why people wanna be in your group and wanna be around? It always goes back to like the lunch room table. Remember as a kid in sixth, seventh grade? The kid who always had 20 people around him at the lunch room table, was the most popular person. [chuckle] And then number four, obviously, keep releasing content in your group that people find valuable. Am I missing anything that you wanna add to that?

15:35 JF: Yeah, I think that your last part that you mentioned is keep releasing content, is the hardest part with a group is to stay consistent. So most groups die because the admin can't stay consistent with posting and moderating. And I see this happen all the time, they'll go for maybe six months to a year and then they're gone. So you have to create a methodology to running your group. If you don't you're going to go crazy. Like you have to say, "These are the types of posts that work", outline it, and say, "How can I come out with this type of content every single week?" And it's a lot of responsibility, but if you can actually put it down to science, it makes it a lot easier. That's what we did for our group. As marketers, we're going to naturally lean it in, "Okay, how can we make this a science of marketing?" And we concentrate on... There's posts that we call appreciation posts, where we call people out, those work well. And then engagement posts and understanding how to keep a low barrier entry for commenting. So all these little cues that make a huge difference if you're gonna keep your group active in the long run and just understanding what they are. 

16:39 Steve: If you have a target demographic, let's say you're selling to barbers. Well, you gotta create a group around the pain points of barbers, around making, building a community around barbers. I think without selling people. I think one of the also keys, I think you do an amazing job of Josh, and you never sell people. I've been a member of your group for the last seven, eight months and I read almost every post that goes in there and you don't sell people, which I really appreciate. 'Cause I see sales and I just run the other way, as a marketer and a business owner. So, that's another thing, but I think you do an amazing job of that. Is there anything from a future perspective of groups of how e-commerce, how selling products is gonna... What do you think the future is of groups when you're correlating those three things?

17:27 JF: Well, I think it's about building out your sub-groups and understanding that you can actually direct people there. So sub-groups is a huge feature that was released, and it allows you to focus more on the niches within your industry. So marketing is a huge industry, but within marketing you have PPC, you have SEO, and then you can create sub groups around each one. And that way you can expand your community and also give people a place where they're more likely to go. They may have liked your group, but just didn't like every single post. 'Cause they're like, "Well, I'm an SEO, I don't need to understand how you're running Facebook ads." So you have this group link to your main one that's about SEO. And that makes them feel like you're actually giving a lot of value to them, and it gives them a home. Very few people are taking advantage of it and if they are for the most part from what I have seen is that they're doing it wrong. They're just linking a bunch of other groups that they like together, rather than actually thinking of what are the different niches within the industry that I started my group around. So if you can niche down with those sub-groups that's super helpful.

18:30 Steve: How do you find which content to put in the group? And how do you automate? So let's say you're a business owner, you're trying to build these niche groups and you know that the future is groups, you get it, you understand that there's a community element to your business. How you not only create the content, but how do you automate that process? Have you figured out a great automation process for that?

18:51 JF: I want to say yes, but the answer is no [laughter] And yeah it's... I come out unconsciously create the guide the day of, to be honest. And sometimes it's a day before, but usually it's that close. And the reason for that, is that you're going to hit this point where just documenting your life and what's happening in your group, rather than actually trying to spend a week creating a guide, because you won't have a backlog anymore. I ran out of my backlog four months into my group and at that moment I was like, "Oh shit! Is my group going to die, because I don't have content I can just pull from anymore?" And I was like what if I just document my life and just work on tons of growth stuff and put all my case studies in there. And that's what I did. The best part about it is the group keeps you accountable, so you just do growth stuff 10x faster because you don't have a choice [laughter] 

19:46 Steve: Yeah, yeah, you gotta stay on the ball. Totally.

19:48 JF: So you're experimenting over and over again, hoping to hit some results and that's how you end up producing lots and lots of content. So if you're... It doesn't matter what niche you're in. Let's say you're a cook and you have a recipe group, you're gonna create more food and develop more recipes, because you don't have a choice. You're held accountable.

20:07 Steve: Exactly man. You're part of your community. Now you're not selling to people, you're a part of the community. And this podcast episode, Josh, correlates to my theory on Facebook ads. My theory on Facebook marketing is... Facebook came out and said, "Hey guys, groups is our focus, this is what we're focused on." They were pretty obvious about it. Groups are the future, they are the now. Now my theory, is as a marketer, similar to you, is we have to jump on that immediately. We have to take that and say, "Okay let's bring all of our forces, all of our resources to start building out groups and really building real communities around our brand, instead of just whoring out our marketing message to every single user in our custom audience." 

20:50 JF: 100%. I think building a facebook group... And the barrier entry to join is so low, right? Anybody can start a group within a matter of minutes, and it's not hard to get people in. Granted, I cold emailed a lot of people to get my first several thousand people in there, but after that you realize, you're like, "Wow the only way to maintain this is good content." So actually our last 6000 members came strictly from referrals, which is really cool to see. So you know they're valuable if they come from referrals.

21:21 JF: And yeah, you can reach out to your LinkedIn connections at scale. You can reach out to the Facebook friends you already have, and that's enough to a fill group. And if you do post good content and you're consistent about it, referrals will come in faster than you can even imagine. Especially if you hit on the pain points and you know what they are. I think the harder part is, you see a lot of people who are new to an industry wanting to start a facebook group. They're like, "Oh well, in order to help my product launch," and I'm like, "It's a lot harder when you don't have domain expertise, because people will perceive you as a leader if you run a facebook group, and if you can't demonstrate that domain expertise with the content immediately, then they have no reason to be in the group."

22:04 Steve: Yeah, 100% man. I think domain expertise is proving to someone that you have authority in a specific area and I think... I don't know if there's such thing as authority, but at the same time you have to have enough knowledge, at least to portray yourself as being smart in a specific area. Let's change topics for a little bit, man. You're also crushing LinkedIn... Obviously this podcast is mainly performance marketing, mainly Facebook ads, Spend 10K a Day scale campaigns. You have an interesting story, man, you're also doing amazing things on LinkedIn. Love to share just with our listeners, some of your key LinkedIn insights. 'Cause you are the guru at LinkedIn, man. I watch you on your LinkedIn messages. And I listen to you Facebook, and I really appreciate you sharing all your insights, but tell us little more about where LinkedIn in is going, because LinkedIn is going to be a place where growth marketers are just salvaging over video and with LinkedIn audience network coming out, with organic reach. Just take it away, man.

23:06 JF: Yeah, so when I started on LinkedIn, one of the things that I noticed is that I looked at the feed and I said, "Man, there's tons of horrible content here." And for most people when they see that, they think of running away. When I see that, I think of opportunity. I'm like, "How easy would it be to stand out if I just produced semi okay content?" And so I started writing statuses that were a little bit long form. You only have 1300 characters, but I treated similar to Twitter. I said, "How can I make a status as interesting as possible within 1300 characters?" And I just start publishing these statuses. And they did exceptionally well. And I took the same formula I was using for my Facebook posts, in my Facebook group, and using it for LinkedIn, same formula. So it didn't require any extra work, and I started putting up these statuses that are just blowing up left or right. And it took me from... I had around four and a half months ago 1500 connections, and now I have close to 30,000 followers.

24:01 Steve: Wow, that's amazing.

24:02 JF: This is insane to think about, especially because during our time I was figuring it out too [chuckle] And the last two months it's grown just substantially, and I think I'm about to hit around 30 million views on LinkedIn, just through status posting, and its because I'm treating statuses like people treat tweets. How can you make it as interesting in that scenario. Now one of the things I noticed too, is that on LinkedIn, people are so scared to be personal, so they don't like talking about what's happening at their workplace, they just try to stay away from it as much as possible. So I said, "What if I actually just started talking about some of our failures and some of things that didn't go right and how we're solving them?" Sounds like super common sense, right? Why shouldn't people be doing that already? But people are very afraid, just to put themselves out there... 

24:51 Steve: They don't wanna scare people away from their network, I think that people appreciate when other people are real. When you connect to someone, one to one, you feel their feelings, you empathize with them, there's a sense of trust that goes in. I think a lot of people in this world are scared to really open up to people without knowing someone. That's how I always felt when I would either meet new people or connect with people on LinkedIn, it was so impersonal. 

25:17 JF: Yeah, and I think that's why there's an advantage, because everybody feels that it's not personal, is that if you can be that one person to lead the charge, you would instantly stand out. And just talking about times I didn't get hired at companies, or times that things didn't go right at work, and I've lost a lot of money. I think I had one post that was like, "This is how I lost $500,000." [laughter] 

25:42 Steve: Yeah, we've all been there before, man, it sucks. [chuckle]

25:44 JF: Yeah, people love that stuff, and its not like people actually gets scared of you and runaway, they trust you more. And it's totally counter-intuitive to what most people think, but the truth is because so many people aren't transparent, you're going to trust the person who at least is willing to tell their story. And if there's only one of them, then they are all going to come to me. Just today, I had one of the guys who leads growth and partnerships at Facebook reach out to me. He says, "I loved your story about you not getting hired at Lyft to lead their social media. It reminds me of my story." And I was like, "Wow, some dude that I would just dreamed of talking about just reached out to me and said, 'Hey, your story really resonates with mine.'" And it's such a valuable connection right there, and that's only one of thousands that happened over the last couple of months.

26:35 Steve: You see that everyone else has the same exact pain points, same exact tribulations to reach the top. I think that a lot of stuff you've gone through, I've gone through and the other person has gone through, and when you're real about it, you're honest about it, like, "Listen, I've been through that too." There's a sense of trust that almost automatically is generated between you and the other person. I'm a psychology guy before being a marketer, I studied psychology, I studied stand-up comedy and when you connect with an audience... [chuckle] That's why I always compare comedy to online marketing is when you connect with that audience, you can do whatever you want, you can bring them anywhere, you can bring them to a disco ball, you can bring them to Argentina, and they're just gonna laugh with you. I think that's the amazing thing about human connection.

27:23 JF: I entirely agree, and people often forget that nobody changes across platforms. These people that are on Facebook are the same people that are on LinkedIn. It's not like they're different people now that they are using a different social media platform. They still are going to want to build a relationship based on their know, like, and trust factor with you. And how do you increase that? It's just being transparent, being real with them and they love that. But also understanding like, "Hey, how did you solve your problem?" So if you just go off on a story about how you lost a lot of money and that you're hopeless, people won't do business with you. You have to actually have solved that problem, right? 

28:00 Steve: You have to come out of that alive. It's like, "Yeah, I went in to it then I died, I didn't survive. I'm out."

28:07 Steve: But you know what's interesting is, I always look at people and I say, "How do you quantify people to regular brands?" How do you correlate what we're talking about, from being real, being legit, like talking about your pain points and saying like... How do you correlate that to being an e-commerce brand? Let's say you're in a holiday season and you're running out of product and people are pissed off, they're yelling at you. If you're in e-commerce just be real and be honest with people, just say, "Hey guys, I didn't realize that we'd run out of product, I'm sorry." You know how far that would go? 

28:47 JF: Imagine of all the kickstarter campaigns, right? Where they're all saying like, "Oh, it's gonna be here, I promise." Just be honest, if it's not gonna be there for a month, or three months, let them know. Otherwise you're going to keep saying, "I promise, I promise," for two months. And guess what? Now you have a million broken promises.

29:05 Steve: Exactly. We all run businesses. We all know that there's troubles, there's pain points, there's difficulties, everyone gets it. I stress to every partner we work with, just be honest with people, just tell them. Listen, if you're having fulfillment issues and you wanna apologize to people, instead of just posting on a fanpage, why don't you run an ad to it? Run an ad to your custom audience saying, "I'm sorry. This is on us. We didn't realize the product would take this long." Just be real. People will so much appreciate that, and they would look at you as a human being and less just some random brand. And I don't really understand why more people don't humanize themselves when it comes to their online reputation or their business.

29:50 JF: Yeah and at the end of the day, even though they lose out, it's a benefit for everybody that is, 'cause... It's like, I'm gonna be standing out for a while, while everybody is learning to catch on. There's not many people doing what we're doing, it's very, very few. It may take them another couple of years, maybe five years, before people start realizing, "Wow, it's important to be human on social media." In that meantime, who knows where... If I can do what I did in a little over a year, then in five years from now [chuckle], I'll be world's ahead of them when they finally figure it out.

30:26 Steve: You have a story. We all have stories, and I think when someone listens to a story of me and you, Josh, we're not Harvard educated. I didn't graduate college either. If you were going to make a bet on me being successful when I was 16 years old, it's probably a hundred thousand to one. It's like the Buffalo Bills winning the Super Bowl or something, if you want to correlate it to something. How many times the Buffalo Bills win the Super Bowl? They never win. We all have similar stories and when you see people like yourself and me, we inspire people. And I think it's really important to really share those stories, because there's so much negativity right now. We need to be there to bring people up.

31:05 JF: Very true. I remember as a high school senior I got voted "most likely to steal someone's organs and sell them on the black market."

31:15 Steve: At least you were running a successful business. Sounds like whatever you were doing, you understood supply and demand pretty well.

31:23 Steve: Whereas, I had teachers bet on me, how long I would be in jail for. I had teachers who just... As a kid you never take life too seriously, so you don't really take the moment too seriously. But as you get older, you're like, "Wow, I really was in a bad place back then." The message I tell everyone is, "Where you are today is not going to be where you are tomorrow." Everyday is a unique day and a unique moment. And I really appreciate you coming on our podcast, just telling your story, because you inspire others as much as you inspire me, to everyday become a better person. 

32:00 JF: Thank you man, I really appreciate that. I really do think everybody should be telling their story on social media. There's never been a perfect time like today. And if you do, you'll be surprised. As soon as you tell your first story, it'll probably be your most engaged post ever. You'll be like, "Wow, people actually really resonate with it." They're always surprised. They hear it from me over and again and then when they finally do it, it's like, "He was right. It does work." [laughter] And they finally wake up. It only takes one. 

32:30 Steve: I'm not gonna mention the marketer who came up with this idea, but there was a CEO of an e-commerce brand, very similar to us. Big story teller, he was very active on LinkedIn. What he did was, he wrote a really amazing LinkedIn story. It wasn't that long, but very inspiring of how he grew up, and then he took a screen shot of it and turned it into a Facebook Ad and started marketing it B2C. This is my story, this is who I am, try my product. [chuckle] People were reading his story and I remember looking at the amount of comments. The guy had like a 1000-plus comments on that ad. Can you imagine if the executives at some of these bigger brands started really humanizing themselves and say, "This is who I am. I am behind this brand. Here's my story"? It would go so far. Would you agree?

33:21 JF: Yeah. It's funny that you say that, 'cause part of our business model is we run a membership for B2B founders, and we help them with their personal brand. That's part of what we do. We get them to tell their story and then we use that copy on top of that. That's re-marketing for audiences. [chuckle]

33:36 Steve: It's so... Yeah, I literally saw a guy who... It was a LinkedIn status and they screen shot it and turned it into a Facebook ad. I was like, "Wow, that's genius." I'm sure that ad converted, he probably got a ton of sales... But the picture of him and... I don't know. I just think the more different you become in the way you tell your message and your story, the more personalized and human that you are, the better your ads are going to convert and the longer you're gonna have customers. 

34:04 JF: 100%. If you know the copy performs well already, 'cause you did it on social and people relate to the story, use it in an ad. And most people forget about that. The same copy that converts on your profile or on LinkedIn is going to work for an ad as well. It's one of the most powerful ways to stand out. Everybody remembers those people with long form copy. They're like, "Who's this person with long form copy on this Facebook ad that's doing really well?"

34:33 Steve: How many ads do you remember? You don't remember many ads. I remember talking to someone, I was like, "Give me one Facebook ad that you remember." I can name two. I can name the Dollar Shave Club ad, obviously. Everyone loves the Dollar Shave Club ad. I could name the Chubbies ad, just because they were creative and they were well done. And just remember the videos of people jumping in a pool. You remember the guy running around, "It's time to shave better." You remember that stuff. But when you start becoming personal, I can tell you, I remember a lot of different LinkedIn statuses. I remember people telling stories on LinkedIn. I think that's key to business. What I've learned is being able to tell that story in a human authentic way. 

35:11 JF: Yeah. I entirely agree. It's funny because most people, when they think of LinkedIn they think of posting events or just linking to their blog posts. Who would've thought that a 500-character post about your story could reach, possibly, millions of people. When we work with founders, it's usually on their first post, they're reaching hundreds of thousands of people. It's the first time they've ever been real with their audience. Their audience is not expecting it, right? Their audience all of a sudden is like, "Wow, I didn't know so and so actually had this story, this is really amazing." We had one guy, he landed two deals from his first post. He just put it up on Facebook, and he talked about how his mom had cancer when he founded his startup, and stuff that he had just never shared with people before. And thousands of people just reached out to him with thank you messages, saying how they could relate and they wish more people talked about this stuff. And I was just blown away, 'cause that was really cool.

36:10 Steve: That's awesome man, you have a great story. Before we wrap things up, most of the listeners of this podcast are e-commerce business owners, people who spend a lot of money on Facebook, people who have e-commerce stores, people who really wanna get the edge. They wanna figure out what is gonna give them the unfair advantage to becoming profitable enterprenuers. If you're gonna give some advice to the B2C owner who really wants to do something different, whether it's Facebook groups or it's LinkedIn, or whether you're running ads to tell a story, what would you say are the top first couple things that come to your mind?

36:41 JF: Yeah, so I would say that if their customer doesn't know actually who's behind the company, then they have a problem with standing out in their market and having longevity, 'cause then they have no story. You may be able to run ads for a certain period, but eventually your market may become saturated as more people bid on that audience. So you have to be able to say, "I have a brand because you know my face. It's not just my product, but you know the story behind it." So mixing in your face with your product, and that may come through video ads and you actually showing up on your video ad. And founders are so scared to do that. They're like, "Me in a video with my new product? I'm staying out of it, no way."

37:23 Steve: Every founder has a Wizard of Oz mentality to them. They wanna stay behind the curtain. [chuckle]

37:30 JF: Yeah. It's so funny. Oh my gosh. Yeah, so they stay more relevant by putting their face out there, then also using some copy to tell their story. They're gonna hit their audience far better than anybody is right now and nobody's gonna copy what they're doing for the next several years. Nobody's jumped on it and it's a wide-open game. That's why I'm winning, that's why a couple other marketers are winning. And yeah, it's time. 

37:57 Steve: Cool man. Well, again, I appreciate you again coming on the Spend $10k a Day podcast. Josh Fechter from Badass Marketers & Founders. You're the man, thanks for coming on. And another awesome episode, man. Thanks for joining us dude, appreciate it.

38:12 JF: Cheers. 

38:13 Steve: Yeah Cheers. Yeah man, good work.

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